Episode 11: Numbers

Does the number of people you’ve made out with matter?  What does it say about you?  We discuss this and enjoy a musical performance. 

The Panel: Rudy Gilman, Gun Street Girl, Will

Poll: On the right, please answer the poll question.  A subject I wish had been discussed further in the podcast is whether or not you're missing out on something in life by not kissing lots of people and seeing what life has to offer.  If you could, John Rawls-style, decide how many people you wanted to kiss in your life before your life actually started, how many would you pick?  I'd want as high a number as possible, but from the discussion in the podcast, I seemed to be in the minority with that view.

The Debate: GSG thought the number is irrelevant.  She never even thought about the subject before this episode.  Rudy thought that the number colors how people look at you.

I asked GSG if she would care if a guy she was with had kissed 300 or 0 people.  She considered having kissed no one to be strange, but would be more creeped out by a guy who off-hand knew the exact number of people he had kissed.  I pointed out that I take a lot of flak not for knowing the exact number, but for having a generally high number, regardless of what that high number may specifically be.  People may think my kisses are less valuable since they are more common.  GSG says that, besides a Barney Stinson-like list (see also this), it would never cross her mind.

Rudy says that the number matters, though less than the sex number.  Rudy said he would probably feel weird around a girl that kissed 35 guys a year.  GSG would run away from men who thought like that.  I said girls often felt that way and GSG felt those girls needed to get a life.

I mentioned my friend Chris from college who had a reputation for kissing a lot and I overheard girls speculate about wanting to kiss him because he kissed so much he had to be good at it.  GSG thought that he must have had other benefits going for him that got him so many girls to kiss, not believing that kissing a lot made him a better kisser.  I said that George W. Bush became a much more adequate speaker late in his administration after having had to give so many speeches. (but see this and this)

Rudy pointed out that experienced kissers whose experience comes from bars and random makeouts does not give room for improvement, for lack of feedback and lack of the opportunity to show off actual skill.  I responded by saying that there are two kinds of kissing knowledge: 1) basic kissing and 2) in-depth pleasuring of a specific individual.  Being in a long term relationship provides a lot of the second kind of information but not so much of the first.  Lots of random one-time make-outs provides a lot of the first and not so much of the second.

GSG disagreed, arguing that only after being in a relationship for awhile will a girl provide any feedback at all, thus leaving a promiscuous maker-outer to just keep staying bad, albeit with a lot of people.  Rudy pointed out that he had been criticized on a first kiss.  So have I.  Rudy, though, said he was frustrated by how quickly the feedback came and would have preferred it come later on when it became apparent that the pair would be kissing regularly.  He definitely was confused why the feedback came at the end of the kissing, when he could have used the advice earlier in the make-out to improve the rest of that very session.

I pointed out that if you kiss lots of people, statistically you'll kiss people that give you feedback, even if the majority are less willing to offer their thoughts.  GSG questioned my reasoning.  I argued that if it's random who gives criticism and who doesn't and you randomly kiss a bunch of them, you'll end up with some feedback-givers.  I conceded, however, that who you kiss isn't entirely random and the correlation between who gives feedback, who you kiss and whether the advice they give is legitimate isn't random either.  Instead, people who kiss a lot arguably are more interested in the pleasure of it and thus know what works for them and are comfortable talking about it, thus I'd contend that if you kiss other people who kiss a lot, then they will likely give you feedback.  On the other hand, if you kiss people who do not kiss other people a lot, there is a chance they will keep their thoughts to themselves at a higher rate.  These past two sentences, though, are total guesses, but illustrate how my assumptions of randomness may not be true.

GSG added that people who kiss a lot and are up front with feedback are themselves a minority and thus their kissing feedback is likely inapplicable to the general population.  They may prefer things that quieter people do not, and thus despite hearing only their advice, their advice may not work on the rest of society.  I mentioned that in Episode 10, we discussed how not all feedback is vocal but instead comes from mirroring and setting a good example.

Review: Our own numbers

1. Me: I took a pen and paper in 2006 and tried to write down every one I ever kissed.  It took awhile and it's not as if I was able to name them all immediately off the top of my head.  I was able to name about 150 people.  I recognize that my memory fades, there are people I can't remember now that I could remember back then.  But I would now estimate my number to be in the 300-range in 2009.  I noted that when I started college in 2000, my make-out number was 2.
   
2. Rudy: Rudy noted that making a list like this is similar to watching the AFI Top 100 Movies.  Rudy believes his number is between 50-100.  Rudy noted that he had a very prosperous youth, then in high school he had a lull that did not end until college and post-college.  Liz is confused that Rudy kissed people at the age of 7, asking if he hooked up with Roman Polanski.  Rudy responded that Queens had more youthful making out.  I asked him if that early exposure changed him and he responded that it made the lull very difficult.  I agreed that when I had a lull, the Great Drought of '99, the time without making out once I had been used to it was even more painful.
3. GSG: 30-40.  I posited that girls have lower numbers than guys, though this may be due to the bias of guys over-reporting and girls under-reporting or due to the stigma girls feel about being labeled sluts (almost entirely imagined except by other women, by the way, though Rudy disagreed in the debate).  GSG posited that, in the world of heterosexual kissing, the numbers need to be about even.  I disagreed since one guy can kiss many girls, upping his numbers but keeping the various girls at a smaller number.  I asked her if she wanted to kiss more to experience some making out that's still out there.  GSG said that though she's had unrealized crushes, she's content that she's kissed people in general that she's wanted to kiss.  This reminds me, however, of my own attitude about travel before I really started to travel.  I believe there's a whole world of kissing out there that we are sadly on this Earth too short a time to come close to fully exploring.  My old law professor in Denmark, however, told me that women all over the world kiss the same, so maybe that world isn't that big.

Musical Performance by Lachlan, Emma Gillespie, Sasha Santiago Chavez, Charlie Crockett and Zach Kangas

This group wrote a song specifically for this program and performed it for the first time here in the studio.  The lyrics to the song will be posted shortly.

I asked the group after the song about "kisses in the springtime" versus "kisses in the fall" and whether kissing improves with experience.  Lachlan said that once you really know mouths, you're more confident and able.  He added, though, that when a mouth is new there's a novelty and excitement that may be more pleasurable.

Emma pointed out though that kissing skill tells you a lot about a person.  Sasha said that kissing is all about communication.  By that logic, though, I would contend that experience in kissing, like in life, makes you a deeper person.

I asked Sasha about his solo, which was very intense, and how that was inspired by kissing.  He said it's a communication of the feelings in his soul, a way to be "emotionally naked" so he doesn't know where the music will take him, which he said is exactly like kissing, where you open yourself up to the feelings not knowing where they'll go.

Lachlan pointed out that there's a vulnerability and trust involved in collaborative music and in kissing wherein you follow a feeling or a person instead of mechanically playing notes or moving your tongue.  Charlie added that music is emotional, just like kissing, but neither are what occupy most of your time.

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Episode 10: Bad Kissers Part 2

Debate 2: Lachlan and Rudy debated whether or not it is bad kissing to kiss the same way regardless of context.

Rudy says his bar kisses are more animalistic and intense and are influenced by the darkness and the moment.  The vibe then changes at home and it becomes more refined and romantic.  I pointed out to Rudy that these different styles sound exactly the same in practice and only differ based on the mental feelings behind them, with home just being more romantic.  If anything, I find being outside of my house more romantic and serious whereas home making out to be very standard and quotidian.

Lachlan says he varies his kissing, but not relative to context.  He is tender sometimes, aggressive at others, but would vary these styles at both bars and at home.  Though he may vary the speed slightly, he does not have a separate style for a bar versus a home.

Rudy said that he would feel uncomfortable if someone jumped him at home as one would at a bar.  Home make-outs require preparation, which reduces spontaneity, as you clean up and check that nothing embarrassing is around.  Lachlan and I disagreed that surprise kiss attacks are bad.  I found something attractive about getting home and discovering someone has had bottled up aggressive kissing feelings the whole time that just then had to explode.

I provided the presence of my parents as an example of when your kissing style may vary as full on make-outs may not be appropriate in parents' presence.

Lachlan shared a story when a girl with crisps in her mouth jumping him with too much tongue in a bar.  He didn't enjoy this, despite the bar setting, showing that the locale did not really suggest which style would be appropriate.

Review of Foods Than Can Ruin A Make-Out

1. Tuna - I point out that tuna has negative effects on your breath.  Kangaroo Dave points out that a guy having tuna breath is appropriate considering the taste of a woman's vagina.  JJ points out that gross foods cancel each other out, so if a girl also eats tuna than it won't seem so bad.
   
2. Spicy foods - Kangaroo Dave suggested this one, though he is from Australia and thus may have a more bland palate than an American or any non-European.   The issues that KD describes with spicy foods, however, are less to do with taste than with gastrointestinal discomfort and skin irritation, which I believe may be specific to KD and not universal.  He disagrees.
3. JJ points out that hummous should be bad because it has garlic and yet she has pointed out that she has never had a problem with hummous and making out.  I contend that not all hummous has garlic, but the panel agrees that hummous is innocuous when it comes to making out.  That said, however, hummous is often served with hot sauce and I advise against the hot sauce before making out.
4. I say ribs.  Ribs are so sloppy that it's hard to find an eater kiss-worthy after they have barbeque sauce slathered across their lips.  This is true despite the fact I like the taste of barbeque sauce.  I point out that this may be due to the fact that I associate sloppy eating with not yet having adult mental capabilities and the color of barbeque sauce with the color of feces which I don't want near a girl's mouth.  KD said that the act of eating ribs is somewhat animalistic and is actually a little scary, comparing such a girl to a surgeon ripping open a patient.  JJ suggested bringing a blindfold so you don't have to see your partner so messy.  I pointed out that someone may be offended if you need a blindfold in order to make out with them.
5. I suggested a burrito, inspired by a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode (I was mistaken, it's a Jack line from 30 Rock).  I figured the gas and stomach discomfort would make this unpleasant.  KD suggested that vaginas look like badly packed burritos.  JJ conversely finds burritos phallic and thus the image of a girl devouring a penis would be unpleasant.
6. Kebab says KD, but does not say why.  KD also says to avoid a woman who feels comfortable eating at McDonalds.
   
7. Raw onions are bad says JJ, but cooked onions are not.

JJ Tells Us What Not To Do

1. Never start with the tongue, always start with the lips and then add tongue later.  I suggested that a super passionate kiss could start with a kiss, but JJ responds by saying passion starts with touching but not tongue.  Bryce points out that drunk people start with tongues but that drunk people tend not to care what's going on in general.
2. Do not ask to kiss someone before kissing them.  JJ says that the confidence of someone who just kisses her is attractive.  Lately I've been mumbling something in the moment before a kiss and I recognize now that that's awkward, but something needs to keep a girl from talking at that moment, otherwise it's even worse if you kiss her while she's starting to talk, right?  Or maybe not.  Bryce says it ruins "the game" if you talk about the underlying tension before a kiss.  JJ suggests that you initiate other physical contact before a kiss in lieu of talking.
3. Unlike what we heard in episode 7, a tongue should not go beyond the second knuckle of the index finger.  Deep throating a tongue is painful.
4. Don't be boring.  Incorporate variety.  Girls have to be active participants as well, you can't just keep your mouth open and lay there.
5. Keep your eyes shut.  Bryce says it's okay in the pull-back moment, and others agreed, but The Bear says it's like kissing a fish to have eyes open.  JJ says variety is good, and this may involve the occasional open-eye moment.  KD says you can feel when the other person's eyes are open, if your eyes are closed.
6. Ass grabs can be tasteful.
7. Be careful about licks that go up a nostril, says Bryce.
   

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Episode 9: Bad Kissers Part 1

The Panel: The Bear, JJ, Bryce, Kangaroo Dave, Lachlan, Rudy and Greg

Debate 1: What do you do when you encounter a bad kisser?  Shoo her away or teach him to improve?

The Bear said she has taught a guy to be a better kisser after he focused on her chin instead of her mouth.  Bryce made out with a girl with someone whose mouth was stiff and tight-lipped and thus unpleasant to kiss.  Bryce has given and received "adjustment" advice before but she was beyond help.  He later found out that this girl was boring as a person and as a kisser and Bryce said that the two were related.  Since you cannot make a boring person interesting, you can't make a boring kisser interesting since kissing is a reflection of their personality.

I posited that we all became good kissers because someone taught us, so we owe it to future generations to teach them to kiss.  Kangaroo Dave claims he was never taught and that bad kissers are exposed to movies and popular culture and thus should know how to kiss.  The Bear claims that popular culture does not teach you to french.  Bryce says that Melrose Place kissing taught him to kiss subconsciously, but says that kissing is instinctual.  It is picked up subconsciously but not taught.  He compared it to learning a first language.

I say that there is at least an obligation to give bad kissers feedback.  Kangaroo Dave said that negative feedback is hurtful.  I argue that it's worse to keep getting rejected.  I was hurt when a girl named Rachel told me I was a bad kisser and told me what I did wrong.  But I was happier that thereafter women liked kissing me better.

Bryce suggests everyone mirror what their partner does.  It helps you learn and be in sync.  Kangaroo Dave explained in the next segment that some people can mirror how other people kiss and thus get in sync with you, but other people do not and those people should be dropped because they will never learn.


Lachlan said that the first time he kisses a girl is often a practice anyway.

Review of things that make a make-out bad:

• Biting
  
• Food in your teeth: If you can taste food in someone's mouth, it's kind of gross.  Even the texture of the food can be
  
• An unmoving rigid tongue: This reminds Lachlan of fellatio. 
  
• A mouth that just stays open and does not periodically close, forming lots of smaller kisses.  Rudy says that this could be too mechanic.  Greg said that the breathing between kisses can be compared to how Darth Vader breathes emphatically.
• Too much saliva

The panel disagreed that sticking a tongue down a throat is necessarily bad.  I defended this by arguing that a sudden tongue-shove can be a cathartic and charged moment, which is sexy.  Also, innocent people without much kissing experience often do a full tongue shove, and there's something attractive about their naivete.  Lachlan added a story saying that such aggressive kissing must fit in context and not to excess.

What Does Greg Thing Bad Kissing Is?

1. When a girl is insufficiently gentle or soft.  When they are "like marble" or have "mason mouths".  At first Greg said there was a difference between soft and gentle, though gentle is defined as soft by Merriam-Webster.  However, it is also defined as a lack of harshness, which may refer to the act of kissing rather than the softness of the person's features.  I find a certain amount of roughness and aggressiveness to be exciting and sexually charged, though the other panelists found this unpleasant.
   
2. Biting a tongue or licking teeth (though biting the lips is okay).  I personally, though, find licking teeth to be hot.
3. When a girl isn't awesome, which Greg defined as being unwilling to get tied up by NES cords and wrapped up by an NES Advantage Pad (though I believe he meant the Power Pad), then blindfolded and ravaged.  Bryce called this "kinky and nostalgic."
4. My ideal make-out: late in a first date after getting drunk at a bar and while catching fireflies together on the walk back to a girl's place.  Greg then tried to salvage my fantasy by adding Nintendo references to it (i.e. "Super Mario all over her ass") and some violence.  Greg mentioned that he would like to make out while playing video games, though I found them to be unhelpful for making out.  In college I used my superiority over girls at Super Mario Kart and Tetris Attack to get girls to be impressed and thereafter make out with me.  In retrospect, this may have been a little pathetic and I definitely felt awkward as this was taking place and that the video game was unnecessary.
   

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Episode 8: Work

Is it a good idea to make out with someone you work with?

The Panel: Bryce, Kangaroo Dave, Dr. Lizardo, Greg.

The Debate: Bryce started out advocating making out at work because it's hot.  He then quickly retracted his stance and stated that office make-outs usually do not work out and then you are forced to see your make-out partner afterwards.  Why don't they usually work out?  I'm guessing because workplace attractions are contextual: I may like a woman because of who she is in the office, how she is in the office.  But once outside of the environment, she may just be boring or plain.

In the program, I point out that the risk of things not working out is not only not unique to the office, but it pretty much is the case for most makeouts anywhere.

Dr. Lizardo adds that all one needs to do is be smart about the make-out and not to make-out with people at work you see frequently.  Don't go for bosses or underlings or people in your department with whom you work closely.  Bryce adds that he has never had an office make-out as he has only worked in small offices and so everyone has been in close proximity to him.  He also has only drank with his coworkers on one occasion.

I add that a makeout is less intense than sex and thus adults you see regularly should still be mature and deal with it.  Bryce noted that not everyone is so mature.  Dr. Lizardo said one should man up and deal with the fallout.  Bryce said that even if you're ok with the gossip, it may hurt your career plans.  I add that there's something hot about being the object of gossip and that there's more to life than office politics.

Dr. Lizardo points out that there's a difference between Christmas Party makeouts and a slowly built office flirtation.

Bryce warns against developing a reputation for making bad choices if you make out with someone unattractive.  I respond by arguing that the person who comes off worse is not the maker-outer, but the superficial gossip.

Bryce also warns about possible HR complaints.  I respond that people need to be smart and not assume because of one makeout that your coworker can be publicly fondled at work the next day.  But Bryce points out that at the office, signals can be difficult to read and the difference between boredom-related flirtation and serious flirtation may be clear in one person's head but not the other's.

In general, I argued that risks are worth it.  The alternative is a dull life, and this is as true in office make-outs as it is in anything else.  Further, I argued that the type of people that sue for sexual harassment based on an office make-out are so crazy that it's not worth basing your life decisions around their lack of maturity.

As Bryce continued describing his apprehensions about asking work people out, I added that alcohol helps.  Bryce stated his office's HR policy is that employees are allowed to ask each other out exactly one time.  The panel found this strange, especially with the importance of persistence in getting some people in the end.  I was pleased, though, that the HR policy didn't outright forbid office romance and that it humanely permitted employees to give it their best shot.  Upon reflection, I kind of wonder what constitutes an "ask out" (riding the train together?  coffee?  showing you something at my desk?) and I think it puts a lot of pressure on finding that one correct "ask out" which may hurt the process entirely.

The Review: The panel reviewed places at the workplace to make-out.

• Copy room:  I like this place because it's cozy and it's off the beaten path.  Dr. Lizardo points out there's an element of danger of getting caught because it's high-traffic.  I point out that you could incorporate the copy machine into the makeout by some ass-copies going on during the act.  We then had a racist discussion about whether anyone would believe the janitor if he walked in on you during the act.  Greg points out that parents listen to housekeepers, so employees would listen to janitors.
  

• Boss's office: This is forbidden and thus kind of hot, assuming you aren't hooking up with the boss.  Greg points out, however, that hooking up with the boss could actually advance your career.
  

• Elevator: I was afraid of getting caught in an elevator, but for some that's a thrilling benefit.  Greg said he would be annoyed by the music, but Bryce pointed out that Muzak isn't nearly as common as it used to be.  I did mention the moment an elevator door shuts and you're suddenly alone is a great moment to shove someone up against a wall and kiss them.  It's exciting.
  

• The work pub: It's the midway point between work and casual space.  It also invites drinking.
  

• Handicapped bathroom: lots of space and privacy.
  

• A closet
  

• Stairwell: Bryce likes the hollow sound and Dr. Lizardo likes the echo and lack of security cameras.  I like how private it is.

• Cafeteria

• Cubicle: Greg said only depressed people makeout in a cubicle and that maybe making out there would reduce the depression.  Dr. Lizardo said she would rather be in the stairwell.

Bryce and Kangaroo Dave pointed out that our original list assumed a white-collar work environment.  So we dicussed:

• Public area of Starbucks or a bar
  

• Construction site where you work: I said construction site was okay, but only if it was safe and we had hard hats on.  Dr. Lizardo found it difficult to believe that there were women at the construction site, but I did not have a problem imagining women there.  Bryce points out that this happened on the Sopranos, though AJ and Blanca did not actually hook up on premises (however Vito Spatafore engaged in related activities on-site).  Bryce asked about making out with the foreman's daughter, but I thought it was too risky given how corrupt and powerful construction foremen are.  Unless she was homely, in which case I'd figure the foreman would be grateful.  Dr. Lizardo pointed out that construction sites have little trailers which could work.  I agreed and also suggested making out in the Caterpillar.
  

• NASA mission control: I would find mission control to be too nerdy and boring a place to makeout.  Dr. Lizardo mentioned that the weightless room at NASA would be cool.  I agreed that a rocketship would be cool.  Greg and Bryce said that they would make out as the rocket was blasting off and leaving the Earth despite the incredible pressure.
  

How to deal with the fallout: Dr. Lizardo, a successful corporate-world woman, gives some tips on dealing with the fallout at work after an office make-out.

1. Keep it on the DL
2. If people find out, blame it on alcohol, even if there wasn't alcohol.  Greg says this is better than blaming it on heroin.  Dr. Lizardo said that a drunk makeout won't reflect poorly on you.  Instead, it humanizes you, especially if you're older.
3. Do not respond to emails.  Only phone and in-person contact to avoid a paper trail.
4. Don't be facebook friends with anyone at work.  Bryce points out that people can then read your statuses, which may be problematic.
5. Try to avoid having people who have a crush on you from finding out about your make-out with someone else.  If you make out with someone with a crush on you, even if they may want more from you, you've at least given them the sense of accomplishment that they did get with you at least once.  Do be mindful of their feelings though.  Greg advises, to the contrary, that you "fuck with their brains."
6. Dr. Lizardo advises against hooking up with someone you supervise, but subordinates you don't supervise are not off-limits.
7. If a superior confronts you about your conduct, Greg suggests you show them how you made out.  Dr. Lizardo advises you be truthful and say it was a "lapse in judgment" that you tried to keep it low and that it won't happen again.

How can you make an office makeout happen without engaging in sexual harassment:

1. Try to run into your crush more often, but make it seem natural.  Wander by where you first saw them.  Greg says not to masturbate in front of your crush, despite his early success with that tactic.
2. Find an excuse to ask them a question that makes them feel smart.  Do not ask them about their personal life.
3. Ask them to drinks or lunch.  Even if lunch isn't sexy, you have to build up to sexy.  Start slow, like a "slow burn".  When you do drinks, it may work better as an impromptu office happy hour to reduce the pressure.
   

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Episode 7: Lipstick

The Panel: Bryce, Gun Street Girl, Phyllis McGuillicuddy, Greg

The Debate: Does lipstick belong in a good makeout?  GSG thinks that lipstick can make a makeout hotter because:

1. Changing lip color can make the lips more appealing and thus draw you to want to kiss them
2. Lip products can taste good, making kissing more pleasurable
3. Some lipstick can make lips bigger, which results in better kissing.

PMcG responded by arguing that lipstick frequently reminded her of Liza Minelli or old relatives whose attempts to kiss her at holiday gatherings was more gross than alluring.

I point out that other non-old women wear make-up, but Bryce agrees that lipstick can be slimy. GSG says that if you use the correct lipstick correctly, there's no sliminess.

PMcG even argued that lip gloss is a bad idea, only liking Chapstick. I posited that lip gloss or Chapstick was a sign that a lady was interested in an upcoming makeout, but the rest of the panel disagreed.

PMcG said (and Greg agreed) that deep red lipstick makes your teeth look yellow by comparison.  GSG added that fake white teeth look gross.

I mentioned that I liked lipstick marks on my collar or skin.  It's like a safe less-childish hickey.  GSG mentioned that wiping lipstick off of a guy gives an excuse for more gentle face-touching and thereby catalyzes more making out.

Lipstick colors coordinate with your skin tone, so it's not advisable to suggest colors without knowing a girl's skin tone.

PMcG is okay with makeup and not lipstick because lipstick leaves a mark and is worn by old people.  It seems to me that old people also wear makeup though.

Review:  Bryce recommends Margarita flavor lipstick.  I could not find any Margarita lipstick, but I found Margarita Lip Balm, which I think suggests that men do not really know the difference between lipstick, lip stain and lip balm.  Bryce then suggested Mango Vodka lipstick, which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist.  We then discussed why we want girls to taste like booze, and I conclude because there's something wild and even a little easy about a drunk girl.  We discussed this at length in episode 1.

PMcG said that lipstick choices are irrelevant because lipstick always comes off by the end of the evening during the makeout.  I disagreed because lipstick is important to entice the makeout to begin with plus, if made correctly and isn't cheap, it will stay on the lips.

GSG suggests:

1. Revlon Colorstay gloss and paint-ed on gloss.  It stays on throughout a makeout so long as you don't add other things and wait awhile after application before making out.
2. Physician's Formula, which does the same thing as Botox but without Botox.  It takes awhile to take effect and not be slimy.

GSG posits that the point of lipstick, the change of color and size of the lips, is to simulate lips that have already been kissed.   I disagreed since girls whose makeup is intact looks like she has not yet been kissed.  Kissed girls have their makeup and lipstick and so on a little askew.

I declared an interest in red lipstick.  Greg pointed out that that's what clowns wear.

I mentioned that there's something cute about sparkly lipstick.  Everyone else thought that it was inappropriate for my age.

Greg added that a "proper makeout" is really oral sex.  I disagreed with him on this point explicitly in episode 4.

How-to put lipstick on: Greg gave some tips on how to look sexy in lipstick.

Greg likes the color "nude".  I like deep red or purple, but I was again reminded that clowns have red lips, too.

Greg said that a girl's lips should look like her genitals, and thus not have lipstick.  This led to the following discussion:

Is making out a tryout for cunnilingus?

The panel minus GSG agreed that making out is like an oral version of cunnilingus.  GSG argues that a focus on sex distracts from the simple pleasure of kissing itself, like we had discussed in episode 4.  GSG mentions that the pleasure you get from making out is mentally very different than what a girl gets from receiving oral sex.

The girl panelists mentioned that tongue thrusting belongs in making out but is useless in cunnilingus.  This surprised me, as tongue thrusting seemed weird to me in the context of a makeout.  The girls persisted, though, in their belief that variety and "mixing it up" permitted some thrusting in a makeout (and also done only once in awhile).  The whole panel agreed that you should vary the depth at which your tongue is in someone else's mouth.  It should not have a consistent depth.  GSG went so far as to say that, during a makeout, a tongue should go as far into a mouth as it can go (as part of a variety of depths).  I do not agree, focusing as much as I can on the front 1/4"s of my and my partner's tongues.  I may be accused, however, of being boring.

In sex, a rhythm is established.  Cunnilingus, too, involves a rhythm.  However, the panel stated that making out isn't about rhythm, but about variety.  I demonstrated making out with the air for the panel and the major criticism I received was a lack of variety, tempo changes and randomness.


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Episode 6: Funerals

Is it okay to make out at somebody's funeral?  We debate that, review places to make out at a funeral and then have an impromptu debate about whether it is reasonable to expect to be remembered after you die.

The Panel:  Bryce, Rudy Gilman, Greg.

The Debate:  Bryce argued that people would get offended by seeing you make out at the funeral and your family would be all around you.  He also argued that it's offensive to the deceased.  I responded by saying that there are private moments at funerals and that, since a funeral reminds us of the shortness of our time on Earth, that there is a carpe diem aspect of making out at a funeral.  It is comparable to getting drunk at an Irish funeral.

I also suggested that someone who is sad and lonely at a funeral would be comforted and feel less alone if they kissed someone.  Bryce suggested that that would be taking advantage, but I disagreed if the mourner was the instigator and the purpose of the kiss was only to connect through a fog of unhappiness.  I argued that sad people need comfort.

Review:

• A Pew - Greg found it sick to make out in a pew, but Bryce said it determined whose funeral it.  Rudy said thumbs up because you could lie down on a pew.  I thought that lying down on a pew was disrespectful.  Pews aren't mattresses.  Bryce did point out that nearby hymnals could be used to hide an erection.
  
• Grassy Knoll near the Cemetary - I suggested this would be a pensive, romantic place to talk and kiss.  Bryce wondered if you could make out near the graveyard of a bad person, like Hitler.
• Embalming Room ("embalmatory"?) - Rudy liked the hidden quality of the room, but is not fond of the formaldehyde smell.  I disagreed that the room is hidden.  While other guests will not be there, funeral home employees likely will be.
  
• The car ride in between the funeral and the "reception" - The funeral has just hit you and you're alone in a closed area.  Rudy suggests that music goes well in a car.
• Greg: "She Fucks Me" by Ween
  
• Rudy: James Brown or Ella Fitzgerald
  
• Bryce "In Your Arms" 
• Cowboy Will: Silence or Queen
• Caskets - the Twilight craze may make this kind of cool.
• Pagan Funerals - Bryce points out that these exist and I argue that because Paganism is by definition an attempt to rebel against orthodoxy, it would be appropriate to make out at a pagan funeral to go against the mainstream conservative behavior at funerals.
  

Before the end of the Review section, Greg noted the words "Ash Dick" scribbled on the prepared list of funeral make out spots.  After asking what "Ash Dick" meant, Bryce informed him it referred to the practice of rubbing one's genitals over the ashes of the deceased.  Greg approved of this.

More importantly, however, Bryce urged people not to make out at his funeral.  It is "me time" and thus off limits to distractions.  I argued that funerals are for the living, not the dead.  It's selfish to leave the Earth and make people listen to a lecture about how much you'll be missed and how great you were.  Bryce added that virtually no one after a few months is remembered after they die.  Which inspired the third act:

Will You Be Remembered After You Die?

Bryce says that no one cares about the dead with the rare exceptions of the Shakespeares and Caesars.  Rudy points out that the modern power to capture photographs and podcasts allows greater record of 21st century people so they could be remembered in the future.

Rudy argued that the Chocolate Rain guy will not be remembered.  I argued even YouTube people will be discussed by some grad students someday.  I concede that you will not be known or understood by future generations the way that people who met you and knew you would know you.

Bryce argued that only creative people are remembered.  I argued that destructive people are also remembered, but some people who do good work get remembered even if not creative, like a good father or worker whose story is passed down as legend

Bryce argued that people remember Shakespeare, but no one cares about his contemporaries.  I disagreed.

Bryce asked me if I would be okay if I died unremembered.  I said I would be disappointed if I lived life without doing anything worth remembering (not including something bad).  Bryce says this is egotistical.  I think that would make me feel unspecial, Bryce says we're not special and Greg argues that so-called "special" people are just as normal as the rest of us.

Upon reflection, with billions of people, human beings cannot be expected to be impacted by or remember their billions of predecessors.  Bryce argues that people constantly do greater and greater things, so why remember people whose accomplishments have been dwarfed.  I argued that Eli Whitney and Samuel Morse are still remembered despite the obsolescence of their inventions.  The group ultimately concludes that President Obama will be remembered for some time.

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Episode 5: Same-Sex Kissing for Straight People

When a straight person kisses someone of the same sex, what does that say about their sexuality? We debate that, plus review places to experiment and give a how-to guide on trying something new.

The Panel: Krazy Kristina, Rudy Gilman, Bryce and Greg.

The Debate: Rudy thinks straight men kissing men could be a sign of drunken affection and not an exploration of genuine sexual curiosity.  Kristina says straight girls do that but not guys so much, and I agreed.  Kristina said that female sexuality tends to be more fluid than that of men, citing this study.  Kristina also notes that women feel more comfortable kissing girls since it is less dangerous or threatening, but still provides the pleasurable sensation of kissing.

Rudy shows it's not gay since the same men who kiss for affection don't watch gay porn, but instead are drunk and in the moment.  I respond that, drunk, I do lots of things and yet not made out with men.  There are so many other ways for guys to express affection besides kissing.  Kristina suggests mutual masturbation as one, but I do not believe that's a way straight men express affection, but usually do it in youth for lack of a woman.

Rudy also points out that he has only kissed gay men and these kisses were brief.  It was merely polite reciprocation of his friends' random advances in the moment.

Review: Kristina provides places to find same-sex partners to experiment with and the panel reviews those places.

• Food Co-op - the back rooms are "hotbeds of sexual tension".  Rudy suggests Trader Joes may be the same way.
  
• Gay Bar - Straight people are greeted warmly in these places.
• Friend's Pot Luck - I point out that experimentation is difficult where your friends are and thus word can spread.
• Church - Get access to a key or a find someone with late-night access.  Bring a same sex person there or follow them there and then let the ambiance do the work.
• Party Games - Kristina says Truth or Dare or Spin the Bottle lets you experiment without being blamed for choosing to experiment.  It looks accidental.
• Cruise Ship
• Vegas - Kristina says what happens there, stays there.  I point out that it's a pretty conservative, frat party-esque place.  Kristina agrees that maybe for men it may not be ideal, but for women, experimentation is rewarded with men's attention.  Kristina doesn't like how the fad of women kissing for attention has soiled the reputation of actual lesbians.

How-to: Kristina offers a step-by-step guide for straight girls who want to try kissing girls

• Kiss a straight girl for an innocent thrill
• Kiss a bi or lesbian girl, which involves going to places with lesbians like the F train, a food co-op, lesbian bar or similar places.
• Hide your wedding ring
• Don't pretend to be someone you're not, don't try to act gay if that's not who you are.
• Alcohol
  

Tips for guys: Kristina suggests:

• Go to a gay bar and men will do the work
• Alcohol
  

Kristina suggests using Casual Encounters.  I advised against it.  Bryce and Kristina suggested OK Cupid instead.

Also, during the program, Bryce suggested that listeners see the movie Humpday.

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Episode 4 - Rounding the Bases

Is making out something that can be enjoyed by itself or is it merely a means to get to further bases?  We debate this, review ways on knowing whether your partner is ready to move beyond kissing and then give a how-to on how to take it further.

The Panel: Bryce, Tad Paddington, Gun Street Girl and Greg.

The Debate: Bryce believes that making out is just a means to an end.  I believe that by focusing on sex and other bases, you totally miss the moment.  GSG points out that once someone has sex, making out loses its novelty.  TP points out that making out is far less unique from person to person than sex is.  GSG disagrees and points out that bad kissing isn't nearly as bad as bad sex.  Bryce goes on to say that sex is higher stakes, that although it can go worse, it can make you much happier and that orgasms are the greatest experience that a person can have and that it's worth ending a makeout for the chance to get one.  GSG points out that a good make-out can be good fodder for post-make-out masturbation.  Bryce says that masturbation has the same outcome of sex and thus confirms his point.  Like in Episode 2, Bryce restates his belief that adults don't make out, they have sex.  GSG notes that people are happier in relationships in the beginning than the end, which is when they're more likely to be making out than having sex.  Bryce admits this.

How to: The panel explains how to know when your partner is ready to progress a make-out beyond kissing to further bases.

• Bryce says to look at someone's hands.  If they start touching your body, they may be ready.  GSG says it can even be brushing against a collar or chest.
• GSG says kissing against the ear or neck can be suggestive. I disagreed since that can be just part of standard making out.
  
• GSG says when girls arch their chests forward and butts back, then a girl is doing that on purpose to suggest that they want to go further.
• I suggested to examine how long the kisses are.  If it feels very short or very long, then it will likely stay just kissing.  Somewhere in the 5 minute range is where it may progress.  Bryce says he's made out for much longer and then it spontaneously progressed without a catalyst.
• Tad suggests being very passive so the partner gets bored and then wants to escalate.

How to: GSG gives step-by-step tips for guys on escalating:

• Move little bit at a time, slowly advancing and getting approval.  Guys generally are accepted to have this role
• "Brush-aways" mean you're going quickly but, if a hand is permitted there for even a few seconds, then it's okay for the hands to be there but you are being advised to move slowly.
• Dirty talk
• Tad suggests to look for the signs and read your partner and correspond your actions to them.
  

For girls: GSG has this to say for girls who want a make-out to not just be a one-time thing:

• Don't apologize for making out and don't mention your number: it shows you to be insecure and possibly promiscuous.  I disagreed, people who really do have storied sexual pasts tend not to talk about it or dwell on it.
  

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